Hey Steve, hey everybody! How you doing great to have you on and as Steve is on. He runs our TfL off road channel, so this show is all about two things: we love trucks and off roading. What can be better than that right? I don't know it's getting muddy in trucks or getting snowy in trucks and having a lot of fun offroad and, in this show, we're gon na talk about our best and worst moments off road we're gon na talk about the best and worst offroad trucks out there And then we're gon na give you guys some answers to your questions, because if you have questions, send us a question and ask a TfL truck comm and we will answer it. But what do you say we get going? Gentlemen let's do it? Thank you for joining TfL, talking trucks podcast, if you love pickup trucks or big, full size, SUVs. If you love trailering, towing and going off road, this is the right place to be together. We can make this podcast the most popular ever Steve. Let'S start with you what's our best off road moment and I'm asking you, because I know you were just in a pretty badass Silverado in Nevada at the mint 400. Yes, I mean my my favorite authors moment to date. Actually just happened, I mean less than a month ago now here just about a month ago. The mint 400 is, you know, one of the biggest off road races that takes place in in the US anywhere and keeps getting bigger every year, it's a such a fun race, and I got a super.
You know unique chance to go down with Chevrolet and ride along in the Chevrolet Silverado race truck in the actual mint 400. Now the reason they're doing that is Chevy actually uses them in an awkward racing in general. As a bit of like a laboratory they're, you know test out new parts, so they actually give a truck to haul racing. All racing goes out there. They beat on in the desert for a whole season, and then they report back to Chevy and say here's what you should do, here's, how you should make your parts here's what's, going to make them work the bath and – and I mean Chevy – has a permit yet. But we all know that a an off road Silverado is coming a more capable off road, Silverado is coming and that potentially what I got to ride in so yeah I mean I was strapped into the back of that truck I'm, a big dude. So in the first part of that experience was just total not being comfortable at all she jammed into my but I'm strapped in. I can barely move. I got a Honda bike, not but here's the beauty of you're right. I was super uncomfortable that didn't stop me from enjoying it one bit. It was just so cool to be in the back of that thrust: watch Chad, Hall, race, that race and how he picked his lines with my favorite thing, because I'm in the backbone you know, I would pick this line and then Chad would suddenly jump the other Way and I'm like one go that way, and then I would steal you know how smoothly the chocolates are to react and be like.
Oh man, this guy is like just incredible. Anyway, there was such a cool experience and if you guys have a chance, go to TfL off road and check out that video, because there is a pretty hilarious image of Steve with a helmet on taking a look a little bit, though, like the Gerber baby, let's Let'S let's just call it what it is dude but I'm, pretty surprised. I mean you've been off roading for how many years you know 10 years 20 years, and you telling me alright and you're, telling me this Silverado truck this 1500, which is basically like a trail boss on steroids right, so it's a it's, a truck that's not for Sale so talk about this truck. Oh no, no don't talk about it. No, you know I don't want to hear about the truck see you know this is this: is a new segment we're calling Roman's rant, alright, alright and that's? Why I don't want to hear about the truck I don't want to hear about some bulk. Sorry, some bulk, a family show that will never never ever be used these race trucks. They do not mean anything to me. I'M. Sorry, Chevy. I'M sorry Ford same thing with their Ford Raptor, I mean the Ford Bronco that ran the Baja 1000. These are specialty built race, trucks, the manufacturer talks them up and they talk about the fact that this is eventually technology. That'S going to get to you know the everyday trucks and here's my rant, Andre and Steve here's, my rant.
What is up with GM? How long has there ever been around Andre since 2010 about ten years, ten freaking years they've had zero answer to the raptor? What how do you let Ford? How do you let Ford sell hundreds of thousands of raptors without answering that truck? I am completely blown away by that does Chevy right, they have the zr2 in the mid size truck right get her, which has all the off road goodies. It has a wider stance, better suspension, but no more power, though. But how do you not answer Ford in the Raptor, and you know I would say the same thing for RAM, but they've got the TRX coming so we know that there's an answer but yeah. It still took him ten years it's. But what what you know? Why is shed he'd been sitting on their hands, letting Ford define the off road race truck? I don't know Roman, but this Silverado truck that Stephen was in is way different from that Bronco race truck the Bronco race truck was a tube cage. You know complete racing vehicle, supposedly it had the v6 turbo engine that they will use in production, but the Bronco that they showed in Baja this year or last year was like a full race vehicle. This Silverado truck has a basically frame from the production truck. Does race in the production with stop production class in that racing series? So, okay, this barely production. What are the points? One question for all of you: guys: okay, yes, one can buy, which one you're not know exactly that rate, that the truck you're saying is the next production Raptor fight.
When can you buy that's a simple question when other prototypes coming out? When can you buy that you buy it at the end of this year at the end of next year in 2030? You know right yeah. I have no faith in you know the manufacturer until I see some prototypes running around and we actually see it so yeah to this day, it's, probably the biggest question in offroad trucks. Why have all of the manufacturers let Ford on there territory and keep in mind guys right, keep in mind, we've been doing this for ten years right. There is no segment that goes unheralded in the car world. You see what I'm saying and the truck world and the truck world yeah. You look atlet's. You start with, like the German cars right, Germans come up with the craziest little niche vehicle that you've ever heard. Like you know, it's like like a four door, coupe yeah exactly and then you know what's inside ya, within six months. Bmw and Mercedes and Audi have one right like that ten years ago, Ford refined and define the off road truck world, and we know that Ford sells what a half a million f 150s right mm a year, and we also know from insider information that about gosh. One out of ten wrapped one out of ten f150 is coming off the line in Detroit right, which is where they're built our Raptors, so that's 50000 truck a year a year, multiply that by ten years and you're at 500000 trucks, and to this day no one Has answered that it is unbelievable to me it seems like the business case was always there, but you're absolutely right, and you know I think the same thing can almost be said for the eco diesel from RAM.
You know it went unanswered, but not as much time but a couple of years, and sometimes I think some automakers are scared to jump into both be you know, bored I think it's proven over and over that it's always will eat a career and the inside in This case Brandon Chevy weren't well, at least until now, because now we are going to get these off road truck well yeah. We just have to do a lot of wait to get them and then the flipside Ram has had the power wagons for many many years right. The Power Wagon has this kind of burly heavy duty truck and now. Finally, Ford has the tremor that's trying to answer that same question. Right yes, well, this is Rick. This Ram guys has been brought to you by Romans, black asleep you two can rant as much as Roman when you don't sleep. Yes, even then how much sleep are you getting with two little babies? I mean it's, pretty tough break now, we're all cooped up inside, but I got a big yard. Well, we got out in the backyard and I cannot do too bad nice, nice all right, Andre let's get back to a regular, scheduled programming, what's your best off road moment, my best offer at the moment. I remember this was like a 2018 year and we were doing our competition for offroad trucks. And I remember it was Tommy Nathan and I and we took three trucks which were top of the line from each classification where the mid size Chevy Colorado zr2, which then was pretty much brand new.
We had a new Raptor Ford Raptor, which is representing the full size class, and we had a Power Wagon, which is a heavy duty, best off road truck, and we put all of them at the same day. On the same time, on the cliffhanger 2.0 trail, which is and still is our most difficult off road test in Colorado, here, it's, basically very steep, really rocky and it changes all the time because these rocks move every single time. You drive this trail it's unpredictable and we had a very limited number just several hours to film it because there was a snowstorm coming like the next day and we were, but everything clicked. Our video production was great. The trucks performed really well on the mountain and all right, and it was just incredible, that's, a good video, but how about your personal best moment like the moment that you think back and say wow that was really cool and doesn't have to be a video. Just a moment that you were in in charge – or you know in the moment – uh well there's, so many so many moments I think about it – yeah I'll think about it. I'Ll give you mine, do your best. Mine has to do with you, and that is when we were reviewing the latest Raptor and we were shooting the jump right. So Ford set up the jump and you were jumping it and I was filming it and you were like.
Should I go faster? I was like yeah yeah go faster and he was very cautious by nature, and so it was really fun to see him with this, like you know, like a little kid expression just Christmas morning, every time he's right up and took that jump and went. You know two feet in the air, then four feet in the air and then finally, I think you went like almost like six or seven feet. It was really cool to watch. That was a pretty experience. It was in Utah yeah, and it was basically at the fort facility because they have a basically a racetrack and a dirt course jumping course, which is incredible. Like a stadium, almost like a stadium boy, you know my favorite moments of off roading five years ago. We did a series with Jeep yeah and the gladiator, not the gladiator, the Wrangler going around the country, yeah yeah. What about us? A motor Mountain, USA and that's, not technically a truck right, but it also we've done several cross country trips in off road tracks. So what was it taking taking their trailer up the Rubicon? What was the best moment of that? No, the best moment was also the scariest moment is where I almost got hit by lightning, Oh God. So this was an Idaho and this was the Twin Peaks Mountain. I think it's called and we were driving up this serpentine road it's all rocks. Basically, on this sheer, you know very steep side of the mountain and there was a fire station, a lookout station on the very tip of this mountain, and this was also the highest drivable point in Idaho that we were able to reach and it just.
It was surreal because Nathan and I were the only people basically on this trail and there was a cloud coming in with a storm yeah. You know moments like that where you look back and you just think you know this, one may never repeat itself. You know this moment, but it was also bad because when I was filming Nathan descending this mountain I heard there were loud clap. It was a lightning hit, but I could feel the electricity on the back of my neck. Yes, my hair stood up. I could feel it and I was really scared. Thankfully, what I think saved me was that that fire station the lookout station on top of that mountain actually had lightning rods, and I think those lightning rods actually attracted a lot of that lightning. And I was probably I want to say, 20 30 feet away. Probably Wow that's hair raising to say the least, was hair raising it's also was the best. I have another worst moment coming up later. Let'S save that for a little bit later, all right, Stephen we're, up to you now what's your worst moment offroad in a truck. Well, so, in a truck I mean by far has to be taking trust of the Hodge Alliance, so I mean anyone. Who'S watched, CFS ROTFL off road is human Hydra line it's our own little personal musket, and I take them off the truck up there. You know what lately actually also chop some cotton, so good that pretty much a good set of all terrain will get me through I've gotten a few modern custom, not too many but but easily.
My worst experience was actually with my dad. This is way three TfL. I'M, like 18 at this point, he's got an f250 and we're out there in the forest driving around you have no equipment with us. No recovery equipment, no tools, nothing and I'm driving around having a great time. He'S like let's, go up the Hydra line I'm. Like I don't think we should he's like though he's egging people so I'm, like okay, daddy, do you think we're, good, we're, good and sure enough? We get to the end max rough Judd. Thanks, absolutely sing straight down that much I didn't even have boots on. I had like running shoes on, we were just, and you know from there to where that had stuck out there back to where our shop is and where the factory was. You know, that's a good kilometre about a mile. We we got out got super muddy because back by mosquitos, the entire time walk it back curse in the truck. I was cursed in my dad telling me to do it and then without the tractor brought out the chain, because I didn't even think bats are going to work and then probably the worst about whole thing with me crawling back into the mud down. Getting underneath that truck and hooking a chain up to the hitch, it was just very oh. It was just a miserable muddy day, but I mean you know. As Andre just told his story, you look back very miserable moment and they actually end up being some.
Your favorite memory all right, Andrew how about you worst moment that could have been a good video Steve. Absolutely it just made me mad at my dad. Yes, my worst moment that floating happened in Utah as well me in the state of user don't get along as far as off roading is concerned. Is this a Hummer? This is the Humvee that didn't float that did not float and I almost sank in it, and it was almost my you know my moment or you get your foot caught in there in the industry F right, so we were doing a video actually with Plan B Supply and basically what that company does, is they refurbish old, Humvees military vehicles and also deuce and a half's giant 6×6 trucks? They do all kinds of stuff, they make them better, longer, bigger taller, they improve their cabs and tires everything, and we wanted to showcase the capability of their vehicles, which you know a Humvee is really really capable. So we saw a puddle well next to the whole mouth hold on hold on. You guys, go check out this video. If you have them, do like plan B, go to TfL truck, put it because it's hilarious. So, look on your face when you thought you were gon na drown, but not hilarious, no it's hilarious but hold on. There was not. It was not a pond. It was so you imagine this. The scene is there's there's a dirt pile that's, probably 15 feet 15.
It was 15 feet tall and next to it is a hole with water and it doesn't take a lot of imagination, Andre to figure out that that 15 feet of dirt came from that puddle. But somehow the guys over there decided that the puddle was not 15 feet deep, but was much shallower, Butcher wasn't, it was not turns out, it was not and it was really soupy. Under there the mud was just salty. You know there was basically it's near Salt Lake City, so then you decided to drive into it at full speed for some reason. Well, yeah that's, like like hey let's check it out. You know like you're supposed to do like lesson to be learned. Nice is probably, if you want to cross something, maybe wading through it first or maybe putting a stick in there and searching and maybe trying it. You know, don't use your vehicle to as a first exploration. So, though, I have to I'm sorry if I'm, if I'm being cutting you off here, but there there are a lot of things. You did here that that were exactly the wrong thing to do. Yes, so driving into this thing at full speed was like number one: okay, alright, that was number one and then number two has to be the fact that you're in a Humvee with a snorkel right. So you know the snorkel is above right, your head right and you fly to this thing.
Water starts pouring in, and the first thing you do is turn the engine off right, which is another huge mistake I was visiting. Water goes up the tailpipe right right. I was really worried about the electrics of the thing, because I also fried an Xterra that day also a Nissan Xterra in the same in the same watering hole. So now now Andrei is in this hole. Water is seeping in everywhere, it's it's seeping in it's. Getting the window, these horizontal sliders, you know they're very and you know you've seen the Humvee. The windows are about. You know a foot tall right, so if I would not be able to crawl out of this window, look at my belly. Well then, these also, you also could get the seat belt. Undone. If I remember right, you were struggling to do that because you, you could see this water coming up. This look up and that was seat. Belted abs are ten tear comes into his eyes. You could see it water's coming higher and then for some unbeknownst reason. There was a tow rope that somehow wound itself around your foot so when they did start to pull you out of it, they almost pulled your foot out of your socket right. Yes, so, but I did one great thing which is: I was wearing steel toed boots, okay, how does it help with the water? Because when the rope, the tore open it, what it kind of rolled around my foot, yeah and actually was trying to squeeze itself against the door sill yeah and because of my brother, basically saved it from being squeezed congratulations.
So I still have my feet and I've learned a lot and I you know I want to thank the guys at Plan B. Yes, because there were really good sports. That Humvee was functioning after we pulled it out, yeah and but not great that that was not my poorest moment. So my worst moment guys was, I went with our videographer to go shoot this isn't a truck. This was actually a Land Rover. It was a Range Rover, Sport off road, and we went up to our usual place, which is up there in the mountains, and we hit our usual trail, the Switzerland trail and within, like oh, I don't know quarter mile. I got stuck right starting to snow in snow yeah yeah because I said, and then I'm like I'll just jack it up so jacked it up. Then I got high centered so now I'm good and truly stuck and so now I'm like what do I do now? So there's no snow phone service up there and I had to call and rear and Athan for somebody to come, like with the Raptor and pull us out right so I'm, looking around I'm walking around it's getting colder, and I found the only house there and I'm Like okay, I can borrow this person's phone because they probably have a landline and then I'm bought the knock on the door, and I noticed that there's a sign for naked yoga how's this your worst moment because existential crisis because I'm, imagining I'm, not imagining like 20 Year olds doing naked yoga I'm, imagining, like you, know, 70 year olds, all doing hot naked yoga, and I did not want that image burned into my brain.
You know downward dog. It was just not the right image. Okay, so what happened? My knock on the door and well no, what happened this woman came out and she was not naked. It was good, it was good yeah, but but for a while there I was like good naked yoga. You know you're in the mountain don't know where what kind of you know people are taking advantage of that solid that's solitude yeah, exactly exactly that way. Getting your car's alright boys, let's let's, go back to our topic at hand, which is trucks and off road and I'm gon na put out three of the best trucks out there for off roading and I'm gon na find out, which one you think is best. So I know these are in different classes, but I think they are the best for each class. So would you guys all agree that the best at least most capable – I would say the best let's say the most capable off road midsize truck – would be the Colorado zr2 bison? I think that's it's got the most goodies. Would you agree with that? Andre and Nathan? I mean Andre and Stephen, I don't agree. I would mostly agree. I think the TRD pro has an argument for it, but I do really like this. Alright, what would you say is the best I would say the gladiator Rubicon or actually a Mojave? Maybe the desert runner, alright, so there's there's, there's there's a definite good run off there between the gladiator, because it does have all the goodies that the zr2 has plus the the the party's come on.
Well, we should kind of mention like how do we judge this right I'm talking about like most off road goodies that you can use right yeah, so you have to have like clearance approach angles, lockers, probably that you know all that stuff helps yeah, so so between The two, those are probably the two most capable midsize trucks right, all right, full size truck now, we're going up the class. Yes, I think it's Raptor and is there anything else that even competes with the Raptor in terms of kind of all the goodies you get so far? I still think the rapper is kind of in a class of one and then like we already talked about. You know the other high speed hats on you're coming, but you know it's tore out there and I say high speed, but you know you go rock crawling in a raptor and it's, pretty dang capable as well. I think that forced in some limited clip it's pretty impressive, oh yeah, I still think it's kind of in a category of one yeah. If you look at every other truck in the full size category, the half tons, the Raptor, like you said Steven – is basically the only truck with the front limited slip, so it's actually helping you find traction in the front. Most of them have rear lockers right. If you look at Graham Nissan and etc, etc, but the raptor, the only I think, Achilles heel of the Raptor – is just big, no it's really wide it's a desert truck right, like I get it up here in Canada, I'm, like you know, trails in the forest And it feels so big, but then you take it to the desert to feel perfect, but still, I think, it's super kick alright.
Now the last category of truck HD and I think the two that are the most capable are probably tremor and Power Wagon. Would you guys agree? Absolutely, I think tremors bill off road is her story. I Power Wagon off road specifically, is still the truck to get in the HD segment, so I would actually say Power Wagon there with a great Power Wagon, because it's focused on off roading right. So, yes, I want to bring hauling a load into it before you know totally blows without the water, but about those things just off road. I think it's still Power Wagon yeah, the Power Wagon doesn't have a ton of payloads. What you know about what fourteen hundred pounds and maybe ten thousand pounds of towing yeah, so the reason I'm bringing this up guys, is because this week, Nathan keeping Nathan Steven is uh producing most people think I'm Nathan anyways, which is not true. This Canadian yeah yeah stepchild anyway uh. The reason I bring this up is because this week Stephen on TfL off road is producing a series of videos called. We are this new series called Stephen to the rescue or Nathan to the rescue there. You know ones on now ones on off road, where he's actually gon na go through the best offroad trucks in each category. So if you want to get a deeper dive into like what is the best off road, midsize truck be sure to tune in this week.
Right Friday, you're gon na publish that video that's the plan Friday and if I can just be a little more specific room and I'm actually gon na. Look at each truck and try to say here's the best usage case for this truck. Because I think in every case you can say best or worse, but I think you can always justify each truck. You know. Usually each one has something to offer the others don't so we're going to do our best to look at each segment really dive into what each truck does best and then at the end, we'll have to say, which one, I think is the overall winner. So yeah a much more in depth, look at every single offer and the beautiful thing is you've driven all of them. So I mean you're speaking from experience, it's, not just something that has gotten unstuck and you've got them stock unstuck and did all these things right and the reason good you guys know you guys know as well as I do. You know the spec sheet never tells the full story. You can do a video pocket numbers, but you know there's just a gut feeling. Man, I think we have to share – and I think that's what I'm gon na try to do is here's the numbers on these trucks but here's. What I kind of feel because, like you guys said, I've driven them all I've been in the body, god that's.
I think that's, the most important thing we can do as reviewers or I try to get out of the numbers. Sometimes just talk about the way these trucks really make me feel alright. So here's my question to you boys right now, we've listed, I think what five trucks so we've listed let's just go over and we listed the gladiator. We list the the Colorado zr2 in the midsize and the full size were at the Raptor and in the heavy duty, were Heider tremor or Power Wagon. So now the question is out of those five trucks. If you had to only buy one and make the your everyday ultimate whatever you want to call it off road truck, which one would you buy so let's start with you, Andre wow that's, a tough one, yeah I'm, not you and you can take towing Indo and You can kind of and why you know what what's the reason for that is it, because obviously the heavy trucks are going to tell more the the mid size are going to be. You know more nimble off road, so what struck you would buy? You know what I would buy is a gladiator TRX. Okay, bye, I cannot say the TRX that's great, so why the Gladius about what 7075 7000 pounds of towing on the Rubicon version yeah and now would get the Rubicon. Okay, I think it's worth getting that's. You know stuff from the factory the axles, the lockers this disconnecting front sway bar for better articulation.
So your tires are there and my I toe. As you know, yeah I have a 6000 pound boat and trailer and it's within its capability of that truck and the reason why I chose this: the gladiators because it's just a little bit smaller right, the Raptor. I love the Raptor right. The Raptor is an amazing truck, my experience. Jumping it was incredible, and the power wagon and tremor are also really great, but I think the gladiator just combines the best kind of you can tow. You know it may not be happy at towing right, it can tow, but it can also you can remove the roof. That'S removable, you can make it into convertible and you kind of go out and explore, and I think it combines a lot of that quality together and you're, probably looking at about fifty five thousand yeah before any discounts you can get nowadays. But you know MSRP around the mid 50s for that truck yeah and it's, not cheap. I mean none of these trucks are actually cheap. The downside I would say to that choice is interior space yeah, not a lot but there's, not a lot of interior space, and you know until the diesel comes around that Pentastar is working pretty hard when you're towing anything above let's say five thousand pounds. Absolutely even five thousand pounds it's still working hard. Alright, how about you Steve out of those five what's what's, your ultimate off roader, so yeah? It is a tough call.
I would have to go. Rafter, though I mean I bet there's, like 100 times, you say at 101 times if I had to pick a style of offering that suits me best. If I feed, I just absolutely love going fast and I mean that's what the rap is all about. I'Ve seen you Stephen, yes yeah, you see me drive man, I said you know what rock crawling is fun, but after an hour of rock crawling I'm over it, I just want to go fast well, not to mention the the first gen Raptor was no kind of Compromise with the off road shock – and he was really kind of pillowy feeling and didn't feel the best on road. The new rafters second general after it's, almost no compromise like it's, so good on road. Besides the side that's, why? I would pick it cuz, you could daily drive that truck and then you can go out and just have so much fun. The power is incredible. Yeah I don't actually see too many downside to the Raptor I got to play. It also holds its value really well. Yeah I mean either I get a rapper I'm, not done so we we had the first interactor with the 6 2 and we bought it, for I say like 50, 53 or 53 54 thousand yeah, and then we ended up trading it and getting thirty nine thousand, Like four years later, which is pretty incredible yeah and I think those prices haven't come down much it yet either because that's, a v8 Raptor right, yeah right now, it's a twin turbo, v6 yeah, so people value those big v8 engines – and I got ta tell you.
I probably have to go with the Raptor as well: there's just it's, just an all around really good truck Mike my only caveat there would be I'm not as in love with the new ride with the livewireshock, so the Raptor is the only one out there that Actually has these new Fox shocks that you can adjust for the kind of driving you're doing right so and they're active too and they're active yeah, so they anticipate what you're doing. But I like the old Raptor, with the kind of a soft squishy kind of 1970s Lincoln Continental ride and the ones it's just a little too firm for my liking and yeah. You know the let's face it. The the twin turbo is more powerful, it's, more gutsy, but it sounds horrible, especially as I you know where they have to pipe pipe pipe and fake v8 engine noise and there's, just something about a v8 that you know and a big truck that go together. Like pizza and beer, you know what I mean. I mean yeah we're, I miss. I miss that, even though the the the twin turbo is much more lively, a much more in some ways, powerful a naturally aspirated v8 absolutely – and you know what Roman that is interesting. You bring up the ride because you know the reason you don't like it at the exact reason I do like, because the old Raptor, like I said, I kind of got tired on the ride and that thing after a while, I didn't want to be floating around.
All the time I like it was system up a little bit on road and then yeah alright. Well, now that we've kind of talked about the best, I think there has to be a special mention for the ones that are a little bit disappointing and we're going to be a little political about this, because you know, I think, you'd be hard pressed to find A truck that isn't good offroad, I mean trucks and off road, really have taken the world by storm and that's because they have low speed, transfer cases. You know they're very tough and have you know over, I would say: oversize not just tires and wheels and dimensions, but capabilities right, but there's got ta, be some trucks that you guys would be like hey. If I was going to go off road. This is not the truck that I was going to buy and I'll start with mine and it's gon na be as much as I love this truck on road, and you just had it Andre and you actually, I think, fell in love with it as well, because It'S got a really cool right and on road it's, like it's it's, a truck that everybody should buy, but nobody does us because they want capability that, for the most part they won't use, but the least off road worthy, in my mind at least, is the Honda Ridgeline, it doesn't have a low speed transfer case, and so, when you go off road that all wheel drive system, just can't handle it well, actually, I think the ridge line the oval drive system is really good, except it overheated.
When, with that, the transmission overheated, because you were kind of going too slowly right, yeah well that's what I think happens well that's when you know you're crawling over terrain right right, it was so I think what let's sit down. You have to transfer Kate. The lack of transfer case low, gearing let sit down, also ground clearance, an approach angles and departure angles, let it down, but I think the brain of it in the Oval Drive brain is actually really really solid, it's, just how it's, combined and it's really on the Road truck right I mean it's it's, a it's, a crossover truck meant for on road comfort, but the independent suspension works really nice too yeah. You know it's one of those trucks and I'll, give you a second to chime in as well see, but to me it's one of those trucks that you know is 90 of the trucks that people should have but 10 of what people want, which is really weird. But you know on road it's super comfortable, it's super smart. The way you can open the tailgate either way you know the way you can store stuff underneath the bed, the way that those rear seats lift up. This is this is just you can tell that Honda put a lot of engineering and a lot of thoughtful features into it, but for offroad it doesn't have the one thing you need. What do you think's to you what's your kind of calling it you know.
I absolutely agree I mean I do remember being on the first drive of the this current gen Ridgeline and being impressed by the all wheel drive just in like a dirt field in terms of like the torque vectoring. It does help you turn and stuff, but I mean that was the dirt field. The second you get on anything serious. The ridge line just falls apart, and actually this is a bit of an anecdote, but again back in 2000 and 2008, a first gen drift line once again with my dad I'm driving the time and we actually managed to bend the hitch on a ridge line. We brought the rear end down and the angles are just so horrible. Even higher hitch mount bent right up and it really was not a real theory. So yeah we managed to damn it it's, just not built for it and then it you know: it's, unibody and that's the thing with the unibody vehicle. If you were to really damage, let you know the rocker panel or something you're going to compromise and that's. Why body on screen feel a little bit better process yeah? The reason why it's a great truck don't get me wrong, but do not buy it if you want to go hit the trail, anything okay? How about you, Andrea, what's, the one that you would shy away from in general yeah out of all the trucks for off road for off road used on the road we'll just have another truck yummy the way in yeah yeah yeah.
So and then you guys, you guys can tell me if it's controversial or not, but I got ta tell you that I'm disappointed with the GMC Sierra 84 heavy duty Andre. I brought it up earlier. Power Wagon has owned the second forever and for stepped up with the tremor, and I think the tremors for you legit and then the 84 feels like it just sort of kind of there, but they didn't really do that. Much to it. I guess the argument for the 84 good on the road toes but again heavy duty, trucks off road or not great, to begin with. So if you're gon na do an offer at HD, you got ta, do it and I just I feel like him. Didn'T go far enough yeah, I agree because they didn't lift the truck. It was it's funny because the last generation we had I got to drive it in Utah in in like pink role in the National Park, whatever it's called, and then I got to drive at home in and I took her back and I fell in love with That truck dude, it was, you know it had the roll cage in the back in it, with the lights on sports bar sports bar and then and it had. You know the bigger beefier tires and I think what happened was when they designed the new generation Duramax right, the one that can now tow 30000 finally right and wanted into the new GMC.
I think that the the off road 84 part of it was kind of they didn't design. That, with with that in mind, so it feels like the truck is a really good on road towing truck, but all that stiffness that they designed into it to make it good for towing, really does not work offroad that's. What I felt when we took it to mow, I remember we did that comparison between the three yeah superteen trucks and so in the GMC heavy duty. 84. Specifically, it does not have a friend that solid axle right, independent suspension, which works a little bit better on the road right, not necessarily in this case off road, but I was there when they introduced it in California. Remember they pulled a gigantic boat up to boat ramp and then they took it. They took the veil off the 84 truck and I asked the chief engineering team and I said, is the 84 truck any taller? Did you give it a lift and they said basically no and in my mind I was like it badass right I mean it looks really strong, the big grill, the hood scoop and the tires and the fenders. But I think it was missing that last bit, which is you know, a little bit higher. You know just right height in general to clear, more obstacles and maybe a proper front or the rear lockers. You know it's missing that. Alright, how about you and Ray? Is there one track that you'd be like if I was going off road there's, probably a better segment choice, and this one hmm? Well, I was thinking about them.
The most popular segment is the full size Grafton segment, and I think you have to split hairs. Okay, I mean Raptor is by itself right, we've talked about that it's separate, and then there is really really five manufacturers right: the Ford, GM Ram, Toyota and Nissan and we've tested all of them right. We over the years we've driven every iteration, basically of every one of these trucks, and I think all of them have really strong points, and I can't decide between these two. These two trucks either like an f150 fx4 or a tundra, and even I wouldn't even include the PRD Pro it's, a great truck for the 20 20 year and 2019. They put new Fox shocks on it, which are amazing, right, really great suspension. Really soft right really comfortable right, but once again they did not lift the TRD pro that much right, not not a lot of clearance, no rear Locker in its you're deeper still, which is you know, I mean they do have this traction kind of limited slip setup. So it's and once again and they f150 fx4 – I know they have the Raptor but the effects for package. I mean they give you a rear, Locker and a couple skid plates and you know maybe a more aggressive tire but that's about it. So it's it's. But you have to once again you have to split hairs to say you know which truck actually may not be that good, but I think the tundra just doesn't, give me enough clearance off road yeah.
You know I wouldn't. Take it we've been doing a series of videos recently called the ironclads where we go over this obstacle called the razor roxrite and the razor rocks are great because they test depart your approach and breakover angle. More importantly, they also test whether a rear Locker is important or not let's face it for the most part, a rear, Locker it doesn't doesn't. You know you don't need it. Every day you don't yeah yeah yeah, unless you're in some kind of funky off road, extreme situation where, like one wheel, is off camber and the other one has traction. The rear Locker is not going to come into play, but on the razor rocks it always comes into play and that's. The one point you know you don't need it until you need it and you're right, it's once again, it's one of those like like what is tota thinking where they have their most off road worthy truck and it doesn't have a rear Locker, which every other truck In the segment can be had with, even if you, even if you include GM's, weird g80 right, but it still has a locker so so yeah, it kind of it kind of it's, a head scratcher, yeah and it's, not a bad truck it's. Just once again not enough ground clearance. In my opinion, if you look at it walking up to the truck, it looks good but it's sitting low right, I mean just doesn't, make a lot of sense, alright, guys in alright in the last few minutes that we have.
I want to kind of go over a little bit a few more head scratchers, and I want to get your opinion these. These are like things that I don't understand and yet it's become a common thing for manufacturers to do so. If you have one like that, think about it, let me give you mine, okay, why? Why do most trucks from the factory and it's – probably I'm gon na answer my own question here, probably through the fuel economy, but why do so many trucks come with tires that are way too small for that truck? You know what I'm saying I mean huge tires. Now are the thing in either bro trucks, which we never, which may or may not go off road when I'm talking about broad trucks, I'm talking about trucks with like six inch lives – and you know tires that stick out six inches beyond the body, but these are Still, nevertheless, big tires right and they're, certainly the thing not for trucks where you lift the truck and you get more ground clearance. But yet I look at especially a lot of GM products right and you look at the truck and you're like that truck needs. At least two more inches of tire just from the factory forget about the fact that I'm trying to go like another four inches, but it just seems like an example of that, I think our long term trail boss is way under tired.
32 inch tires yeah. Yes, what is it what why don't the manufactory leaving this out there? Why so so we talked to a lot of cerebral engineering camps, manufacturing teams from ram chevrolet for the et cetera, and it has to do with the regulation. I think safety, so a lot of them say, or at least that's. The story that they communicate is that they have to pass a lane change, maneuvers, yeah, different maneuvers for safety, and this has to do with the government and also the IIHS right, where they test a rollover capability of each truck and let's face it at all tire. With a lot of sidewall, you know with it where you have a lot of rubber there. It has a tendency to lean right yeah you have leaning and so that's the basically the explanation here, which is great, except for the tremor right that comes up from the factory with much bigger tires so 35. Yes, so that is that doesn't have to pass emission that same safety thing. I think it is passed. It must have. What do you think Steve? I mean I think you're, probably honor he's probably got it right. I mean safety reg. I don't see any reason why the manufacturer wouldn't, although you know the other one it may be too caught you know they got to look at their bottom line and bigger, tires, equals more money and maybe they're trying to keep the cost down you all right here.
It can be a cost here's another head scratcher, these are, these – are head scratchers, okay, Steve you've got big green right, our old square bodied GM truck right yep. How many gas things does it have not that they both work? But, yes, it have exactly two tanks. What is it now, with manufacturer, putting these pigley ass, tiny gas tanks into big off road truck into big offroad trucks or big ass towing trucks right that I'm? Looking at our old I'm, looking at our Silverado trail right, what's what's, the tank in there 20 24 Ellen's, which I thought was horrible right. It was one gallon bigger than an old rebel, which you actually had a 23 gallon tank right and when you're out there towing anything beyond a thousand pounds right, you're, probably getting anywhere from let's, say five on the low side to ten MPG and a 23 or 24, gallon tank means that basically, you've got an effective range of about a hundred and fifty miles of towing, which is crazy. Why you have to stop every two hours yeah? Why are they putting such tiny fuel? Is it because of like some kind of fuel economy, or is it because when they do that the mpg test that you fill up the gas tank, so the more gas you put into it? The you know the heavier it's gon na, be the worst your mpg? I mean it's it's like thimbles in these big trucks, hmm, and if you want a big truck, if you want a big tank, you got to go out of your way and order it, and you know good luck with that.
Well, Charlotte doesn't offer everything go ahead, see sorry if it's just packaging and – and you know, they're choosing these days to just packaging other things rather than you know whether it's prioritizing bigger suspension or more suspension or bigger axle. I don't know if that's the case, but then you also brought it up through my weight thing, because the tank is the more gas is in there. The more heads the heavier the truck is then, when they do all the mpg testing, it's gon na be worse and I'm. You know they're always looking to get the best numbers possible. So maybe that or maybe maybe they're freaking out that people have to like double swipe a card because the card rule and usually give you 100 worth of gas right that the fuel is done before you just wipe it again. My tank, you tank expensive, but realistically it doesn't matter because you're doing psychologically bigger tanks or worse. I I think I mean I don't think there is an excuse good enough for a small tank and the big afro truck, because I think maybe what's happening is they do range calculation with an unladen vehicle yeah. You know when you buy it like a crossover or a car or an SUV. They always give you like an estimate it. You can go 330 miles or 400 miles on the tank and maybe they're using the same for an empty truck, but trucks are rarely empty right.
Maybe you're hauling some of something extra in the bed, maybe you're towing a trailer and your range comes down drastically. Like you said drastically, so I don't think there is an excuse. I think all of them should even have an optional big tank yeah make it an option, at least but they're. Probably the option is the dealer: doesn't doesn't order it and then, when you go to buy the truck and it's not available it's not available right exactly the rep will had that option, but it wasn't there and you know now not to end on a negative note. Let'S give them some props to a manufacturer. I think we have to talk about in the last few minutes that we have also have questions dude, oh we've got about the questions. Questions questions at the prop add I just really quickly has to go to truck interiors they've gotten so much better with ram leading the way, and i think i think all the other manufacturers are gon na step up so quickly, your questions, Andre. What do you go out? This could be a kind of a lightning round and we get questions all the time it ask a TfL truck calm as you know, and we get to them as fast as we can. First question comes from John Ciroc and he's in the market for a used truck but he's, looking at a between 2018 zr2 Colorado or a 2019 Ram rebel for about the same price, both trucks can be had.
He says this is why I reach out to you. The experts which truck to buy Colorado, midsize versus rebel, full size, correct, yeah, exactly which is true, I don't, know a full size truck. I just think it's got it's a much bigger let's say call it Swiss Army knife. It just has, you know more capability all around and you know you're never gon na you're never going to miss more capability, but you might miss less. How about you Steve well for the same money. It does make a lot of sense to get more truck. However, I would go tier 2 because that's going to be better off road to get that front Locker, I think it's going to be way more fun. If you hit the trail and that's what you're looking for, then, I think all the way and I think John he's, looking at 20 1802. I think you may be able to buy a brand new one for about the same money now, because the discounts are deeper and you know financing options are available, so I think you can also get a new truck for about the same money as well. Okay, second question is from Diego Deedle Angelo I'm. Sorry, if I mispronounced that – and he has a quick question about the difference between a pintle hook – hitch and the regular ball hitch, which instance, would you use each hitch for right, see this one's yours here's? What I mean, I think I don't want to assume everyone knows this, but a regular ball get you mean that's what you want to use for a trailer that you're towing down behind that's what you want to use on road most of the time, we'll focus on The pencil, the reason you want to take those the number one reason in my opinion anyways, is that it has unlimited articulation.
So, if you're going over a weird ground off road, if you're on a farm and you're in muddy rust, your trailer is allowed to articulate without binding up the hitch. If you have a ball hitch, eventually you're going to get some twisting motion and the trailer will pop off something will break, and then secondly – and I cannot bring up a farm application – a pintle hitch is super fast to hook up. And if you have looked like 20 trailers and they're all pimple, but you only need one hitch for all those trailers, whereas with a ball, you know you have two inch balls, 2 and 516, but you might end up needing footballs. What'S. Your height pintle is also just better. If you have a lot of trailers that you need to hook up, you know anything rapid, excessive. You know, I do think them a lot on farm. I think that's sort of the number one use and then I guess I'll, just real bring up real quick to downside on Road pintle hitches are kind of horrible, because they're really loose like they just yeah they're loud that flap there's. A lot of reasons why pintle hitch is on road or bad, and I actually did some quick research. The aftermarket offers all kinds of different things to help you kind of quiet down and control your pintle hitch on road, but yeah sinkholes on roads definitely are not like, and then, if you guys imagine like two links in a chain right, that's kind of what a Pintle looks like versus, like yeah, you know the ball on top the cap on top the ball, which is what the typical hitch looks like, and there is a right and there is a lot of innovation in this space.
If you look at the latest Overland type hitches for off roading, they're, articulating two hitches, that can move in three dimensions. You know side to side and up and down. So there are other solutions to this. But let's move on to the next question. Actually, two questions from Chris. He has a loaded, loaded, email here he says I'm a huge fan of the channel. Thank you. I have learned a lot of about truck by watching you guys first question. He says if I use an analogue tire gauge a digital tire gauge or a TPMS tire pressure monitoring system in my truck and also a compressor at the gas station. Usually, all of them have a different different reading for the psi what's going on, which one should.